JANELLE THIESSEN [00:00:00]:
Today's episode was actually recorded early this year in 2023. It was the second recording we ever did for the podcast, but I wasn't ready to share it with you until now. I wanted to have this open conversation with my dad about my weight because I know I'm not the only one who struggles with this. And I don't just mean weight. I mean the feeling of not being enough, not being the same as everybody else, not appreciating your own beauty. My hope is that you find something in my struggle and in Dad's response to it that helps you with your struggle. This episode is truly from my heart to your heart.
RON THIESSEN [00:00:48]:
Hey, it's Ron Thiessen. Welcome to another episode of The Human Being Project by The Change Evolutionist, where my daughter Janelle and I explore the difference between being and doing.
JANELLE THIESSEN [00:00:58]:
In a world of constant distractions, sky-high expectations, and the relentless pursuit of more, we examine what would happen if we made space for more being and less doing.
JANELLE THIESSEN [00:01:10]:
The thing I want to talk to you about is something we never talk about together, which is weird, because we talk about everything.
RON THIESSEN [00:01:19]:
Yes, we do!
JANELLE THIESSEN [00:01:20]:
I want to talk about what the heck is going on in my brain with this weight story. Now, if you don't know me, I'm like 20 years now, I think, carrying significant extra weight. Like over 100 pounds of extra weight. And it's been escalating over those years. It wasn't that the whole time, it's just a gradual increase. And no matter how many times I've decided to address that, like mentally, I haven't done a lot of dieting or different exercise regimes, but I have dabbled in them. I haven't been very disciplined about that kind of stuff.
But it's an issue. It's a constant issue.
And I'm just wondering, what's my block? Like, what the heck? Why can't I get past this weight hurdle?
RON THIESSEN [00:02:13]:
So how would you describe your relationship to food?
JANELLE THIESSEN [00:02:18]:
I don't feel that I have this crazy need for food all the time. But I could be... maybe I'm deceiving myself. You know, I do love certain things. I love bakeries. Bakeries are my jam (laughing). And fresh-baked goods.
RON THIESSEN [00:02:35]:
With jam? (laughing)
JANELLE THIESSEN [00:02:36]:
Yeah, with jam. Oh, yeah.
I'm thinking that it's probably a core issue when it comes to the area of indulgence. I felt that when I was younger, maybe I didn't get all the things that I wanted. And so as an adult, I have always had the mentality, I can have whatever I want. Whatever I want! Even if it's vacations that I can't afford, it doesn't matter. If it's something on Amazon that I want, I deserve it. If it's the food I'm going to eat, the drinks I'm going to drink, I deserve them. So I think the core probably is an indulgence addiction.
RON THIESSEN [00:03:20]:
And any idea where that would come from? Why would indulgence be so important?
JANELLE THIESSEN [00:03:29]:
Well, I think in my opinion, when I was a kid, as a disciplinary measure, things were taken, right? If you don't behave or if you don't follow the rules, you miss out on trips, you miss out on family dinner, you miss out on all sorts of things, right? So to me, missing out means I guess I'm in trouble or I'm not worthy or I haven't earned it. And maybe that's the issue now. I don't know.
RON THIESSEN [00:04:04]:
Well, that would be pretty deep-rooted. If it comes out of your childhood, then for sure that thinking is very difficult to break, especially on the subconscious level. And sometimes maybe that's what you experienced. What you're describing right now is a certain level of maybe not frustration, but there's really something you would like to change.
And change is the most difficult thing that we as human beings do. And whenever you have a change, you're going to have some level of resistance. It could be lots of resistance. It could be just a little bit. But there's going to be resistance to making a change. And in my experience, working with people, if the change is being imposed on you from the outside, somebody's telling you you really need to change this, your resistance will be at its maximum.
RON THIESSEN [00:04:55]:
Because every one of us, we have this independence inside of us. We want to decide for ourselves. We don't want somebody imposing on us what they think their value for us should be, right? So if you've had people that were imposing something on you, telling you something that they thought you should do or the way that you should look for them, I'm sure that your resistance is right through the roof.
If we've sort of cognitively come to a place where we say, I really need to make this change, it's for my health, it's for the better for me, our resistance will be lower than somebody imposing from the outside, but we're still going to have quite a bit of resistance.
It's like people that are prescribed medication. This study was done a number of years ago looking at people who were prescribed medication, and the doctor said to them, if you don't take this medication in the way that we're prescribing it, you will die. And even then, 70% of people are unable to follow through and do exactly what they need to do.
RON THIESSEN [00:06:04]:
So even when cognitively, you're aware this really is the most important thing for me, that resistance kicks in. And the excuses for why they didn't: Well, I forgot my prescription, I forgot to take my medication. I couldn't pay for my prescription this month. All different kinds of reasons, but the fact is that they just didn't follow through even when their life was at stake.
Now, if you can get to the place where you understand in your heart space, as we've talked about before, where the resistance is coming from, and you can identify this is why I resist this particular thing, and you can come to the place where you go, so now when I look at that, the resistance just doesn't make any sense, then you have a pretty good chance of being able to change whatever you want to change and finding ways to overcome that resistance.
So you're very familiar because you've worked on it with me, too, with different things. You're very familiar with the Immunity to Change model brought out by Kegan and Lahey at Harvard. But this model identifies where the resistance is when you're trying to face a change.
RON THIESSEN [00:07:17]:
So when I'm talking to you about this, I'm going to ask some things that fall in line with this model. We're not going to go through the model, but I'm going to ask some things that fall in line with this model and see if we can identify some of these areas of resistance. So let me ask you, first of all, do you have, you personally from your heart space, do you have a view of yourself with less weight that you really desire to have?
JANELLE THIESSEN [00:07:49]:
It's funny because I was sitting on a park bench this morning, looking out at the lake and thinking to myself, I know I'm going to talk to Dad about this today, and I know he's going to bring up the Immunity to Change model.(laughing) That's funny.
That's interesting you should ask that because I don't feel able to visualize myself as a smaller person. And yet at the same time, in my mind, when I'm talking to people or with my friends or whatever, I don't see myself the way that I'm presented in a photograph. Like, when someone takes a photo, I'm like, what? That's me. It doesn't feel like who I see myself as on the inside, but at the same time, I don't see myself as a thin, athletic, fit person.
RON THIESSEN [00:08:46]:
Have you ever given yourself permission to be exactly as you are?
JANELLE THIESSEN [00:08:53]:
No.
RON THIESSEN [00:08:55]:
And why not?
JANELLE THIESSEN [00:08:59]:
Because, I mean, that's just, you know, not, I mean, there's a couple reasons it's not physically attractive. It's also not, I can't do things. Like I can't function in the ways that I want to with my body, hiking or even just putting on my shoes if I'm honest.
RON THIESSEN [00:09:25]:
Okay, so can you separate any of the reasons that go through your mind about that? Can you separate what comes from others expectations of you and what really comes from your heart?
Like, for instance, if you told me, I really know that if I don't lose some of this weight, I'm going to pay a hefty physical price later in my life, and I don't want to do that. My life might end early, or I won't be able to do the things that I want to do. How much of those reasons that you feel like you'd like to do something about this come from your heart space instead of something that's being imposed on you? Or something that even your mind is telling you, hey, you better do something here.
JANELLE THIESSEN [00:10:11]:
I don't think anything comes from my heart space about this.
RON THIESSEN [00:10:15]:
So have you ever considered that maybe you should just give yourself permission to be exactly as you are? If I say that to you, what's the first thoughts that come to your mind?
JANELLE THIESSEN [00:10:28]:
Well, my first thought is, of course not. This is unhealthy, and that would be giving up, and that would be accepting a standard that's less. Let's face it, there's like a lot of stigma, and I'm guilty of it myself, associated with being overweight.
RON THIESSEN [00:10:52]:
But once again, that's external, right? Like, if you were...picture yourself, you might have a hard time doing this, but picture yourself living in a place where you are completely alone. There's nobody around you. There's nobody looking at you, nobody's giving you any feedback about who you are or what you look like. If you were in that situation, would you want to change something?
JANELLE THIESSEN [00:11:24]:
You know, I don't think I'd want to change anything about how I looked. I think I'd want to change something about how I was able to move, my mobility.
RON THIESSEN [00:11:32]:
Okay.
JANELLE THIESSEN [00:11:34]:
But no, I don't think as far as I looked, I think even now yeah, no. I don't think I would...Yeah, it would be more about how I can move my body, what I can do with it.
RON THIESSEN [00:11:46]:
Okay, so there's a really big part of what you're wrestling with that has to do with external validation. So what if you gave yourself permission to be exactly as you are? And who cares what anybody thinks? Doesn't matter. Like we talked about before, the way that you see yourself and how you feel inside, that's the most important thing. Right?
And based on how you feel about yourself is the way you move in your world. Right? So if it was only the thing about wanting to move your body in ways that you feel like you can't right now, there are ways to accommodate that. And I know you shared with me you started going to the gym. So if there's something that you're doing to increase the elasticity of your body or your capacity to move, and it has nothing to do with weight loss, then you've achieved your goal. You've achieved what's important to you.
RON THIESSEN [00:12:48]:
If you looked exactly like you look right now, and you were the same weight that you are right now, but you felt completely light on your feet, and you could hike and you could do whatever things you wanted to do, everything that you felt like you wanted to do, you were completely capable of doing that, then it's not about losing weight. It's about, in this case, how you move with your body, how comfortable you are to move with your body and do the things that you want to do. So is that really at the heart of what you're thinking, or is the impact of external approval/disapproval factors more important? And so it sort of forces you to say, I should do something.
JANELLE THIESSEN [00:13:31]:
It's interesting because when you say...well, for me to have the added mobility is not possible with extra weight. So to me, the two go hand in hand. I need to lose weight in order to create that mobility. And I have some resistance to the idea of doing all the work to create that mobility and not having the reward of weight loss.
RON THIESSEN [00:13:58]:
Okay, so why is weight loss a reward?
JANELLE THIESSEN [00:14:03]:
Because I'm going to look and feel more attractive, more comfortable in my skin.
RON THIESSEN [00:14:08]:
Okay. Okay, more comfortable in your skin. See, that's interesting. That more comes from the heart rather...well, it could come from the head, too, but it's really something that you feel about yourself as opposed to what other people feel about you. Or when you say that I feel more comfortable in my skin, are you saying that when you are out there with people that they would be looking at you and thinking about you differently than they do now, and therefore you would feel more comfortable?
JANELLE THIESSEN [00:14:40]:
Well, it's interesting. With my friends and my family, I feel very comfortable. I don't feel judged or that they see me differently because I'm overweight. I do feel differently in public, but not really, like not a lot. I've never experienced any kind of, that I'm aware of, any kind of bullying or name-calling or anything at my expense. Never. Which I've often thought to myself, I'm so fortunate because people talk about how they get bullied or people say mean things to them about their weight. And that's never happened to me!
JANELLE THIESSEN [00:15:21]:
I think it's just me, right? Like, when I see myself in a photograph where I think I'm looking good when the photo is being taken. Like, for example, I was just at your house, right? First one in the pool.
RON THIESSEN [00:15:37]:
At 54 degrees.
JANELLE THIESSEN [00:15:38]:
At 54 degrees. And I was pretty proud of myself for that! And then you guys send me pictures of me in the pool, and that is not at all how I see myself. And it's like a gut punch. It's a total gut punch because I don't feel that that's a reflection of who I am. It doesn't feel like it's a reflection of my personality. But then again, what is? Like who decides what is, I guess, a reflection of your personality, right?
RON THIESSEN [00:16:08]:
And the gut punch, from what you're describing to me, I don't think it's about your values of the way you look. I think it's about what you perceive other people would be perceiving when they look at you.
JANELLE THIESSEN [00:16:22]:
No, I honestly think it's what I see when I perceive myself. It's like I see myself. And at first, I don't even know that's me. And my first thought about that person is eeew. And then my second thought is, oh, crap, that's me!
JANELLE THIESSEN [00:16:43]:
I think when it comes to perception, I care how I look because I want the outside to reflect the inside. Like on the outside I look like a frumpy middle aged woman who's given up. But on the inside, nothing could be further from the truth.
What I find interesting about the stigma associated with being overweight is that those of us who are overweight, we advertise our struggle loud and proud. Everyone can see it. We're leaving ourselves wide open to judgment from others. But slim, athletic, hot, normal people have their troubles too, even if they're not on full display. They might desperately need to fit in or to have the approval of others. And maybe they struggle with substance abuse or they have problems in their marriage or with their kids. Their whole life could be falling apart and we'd never know. Maintaining that image would be, to me, an unbearable burden.
So in a way, I'm grateful I'm overweight. I don't like that it's obvious to strangers that I still have some things to work on, but I guess I appreciate the humility and the vulnerability required to walk through the world as a big girl with no place to hide.
RON THIESSEN [00:17:53]:
I honestly think that from, once again, referring to the concepts of the immunity to change model. I don't think you have a really strong, powerful reason to change this. And I think that's why it doesn't change.
JANELLE THIESSEN [00:18:08]:
Hmm. It's true, I don't have any pressing health concerns or...I don't have anybody in my life who's like, hey, you need to change that because I'm grossed out.
RON THIESSEN [00:18:22]:
Right. So, tying it together with, and I'm obviously speaking also as your dad here, so I know this part of you. But you said it earlier, you're an independent person. And so the controls that were imposed on you when you were growing up, when you got to be an adult, you said, I'm going to do whatever I want.
And so for you then to feel like...can you see that this is even like a continuation of what you experienced as a kid because you were controlled and put in this environment? Here are the parameters. This is what you do. You can't cross these boundaries. And you were the kind that just crossed them just for crossing them. What's the boundary?
JANELLE THIESSEN [00:19:02]:
You can't tell ME what to do! (laughing)
RON THIESSEN [00:19:04]:
(Laughing) Exactly. But this is very normal. It's like when I'm working with any kind of parent and they're saying to me, I'm having such a problem with my kid. I'll tell them, listen, kids have to express their independence. They have to express their independence!
And the way for them to judge when they're in the home, in the family, the way for them to judge, am I expressing my independence? The question is, are a mom and dad pissed off with me? Because if they are, then I'm doing my own thing. So now you're out on your own. You're an adult. You don't have those parameters now.
RON THIESSEN [00:19:38]:
You can push the envelope as far as you want, and nobody's going to tell you, hey,hey, hey! What are you doing? So, I think that in your thinking, if it's society's norms, put that in quotation, that look at you and say, oh, you're bigger than the average and you should be average. Well, your independent streak in you is going to go, I don't care! I don't care what you think! I'm happy doing what I'm doing now. Why would I want to change anything just because of what you think, right? Which is, that's part of the strength of your personality.
But for you, I don't think you're going to be able to knock this in the head, if that's what you want to do, until you find a deep personal reason that you want to make this change. When we look at the immunity to change model, we look at okay, so you say that you've got this model of something that you want to do, but you're doing things that undermine the achievement of that goal.
RON THIESSEN [00:20:38]:
Why are you doing that? Because you have a deeper commitment to the things that you're doing and what you think those things will produce than you have to the goal that you said that you wanted to achieve. So I think your goal, at least right now, this might change. Maybe with some introspection, this might change. But I think your goal right now is far more about the external, what other people are thinking or how they're reacting than it is about any need that you feel like you have to change.
JANELLE THIESSEN [00:21:08]:
Actually, I think my competing commitment is to avoid suffering at all costs. Like, I don't want to know scarcity. I don't want to say no. You know, I'll sometimes eat a cinnamon bun, let's say, because I love the taste of them and I'll eat the whole thing even though I was full after two bites! But it's because it's indulgent and I deserve it.
RON THIESSEN [00:21:31]:
Okay.
JANELLE THIESSEN [00:21:32]:
So I think for me, it's like if I have to deny myself something, the world is going to spontaneously combust.
RON THIESSEN [00:21:43]:
Okay, so here's my suggestion. I would suggest you start with some little experiments. So if you're aware of the cinnamon bun example, you're aware after two bites I was fine. Have a third bite and then leave it. And then ask yourself the next time you're face to face with the cinnamon bun. Just try that. Maybe it took whatever you feel like, okay, I'm full now, but I would go ahead and eat the whole thing. We'll take one more bite.
RON THIESSEN [00:22:14]:
But in doing that, you need to collect the data. If you're going to do the experiment, you have to collect the data. So that means...let me go into some detail. I don't want to bore you with it, but it's really important.
Because what you need to do then, you need to think about what was my...and journaling about this would actually be ideal. If you said to yourself, what were my thoughts when my dad was saying to me, this is what I should do? Come on, it's a stupid experiment. Why would I do that? Whatever your thoughts were, okay. And then when you're thinking about, okay, so now the next time I can't indulge myself, I've got to stop. I've got to stop myself. How do I feel about that? What are my inner reactions about that?
And then when you actually come face to face with the cinnamon bun, what happened? Like, you may find, as you do this reflective process, you might find you come face to face with the cinnamon bun, and say, you know what? This particular time I don't even really want it. That could happen. But let's say you decide that you're going to eat it. So you take your bites, however many that is, until you feel full or you feel like that's enough. So then what are your thoughts?
What are your thoughts about stopping? What are your thoughts about taking one more? What are your thoughts about not finishing the cinnamon bun? And how are you dealing with that? What's the deep feelings and emotions that you have going on inside about that?
Like I said, if you can journal about those and jot that down, and then you have to think about also, let's say you take the few bites and you put the rest aside. How do you feel about doing that? Does that feel like you are denying yourself? Does it feel you are not indulging yourself? And how strong is that feeling? How strong is the feeling of denial? Oh, man, I just really want to finish that thing! Is it like that or is it like this feels good that I could just push it aside and say, I'm not going to finish that. Maybe I'll come back to it later. We'll see.
RON THIESSEN [00:24:14]:
And then what do you feel afterwards? Like if that cinnamon bun is sitting now on the counter, are you tempted? Are you drawn toward it? Do you feel like just one more, just one more, until it's consumed? That could happen. And do you feel deprived if you don't finish the cinnamon bun? And if you feel deprived, why would you feel deprived? This is probably not about hunger, but it's probably about indulgence or scarcity, a scarcity mentality.
And that's another thing that you should be thinking about. Do I have a scarcity mentality when I'm doing this and I control or I manage how much, that it's not limitless, I manage how much, do I feel like that's scarcity? Because it could be, on one hand, make you feel like that's scarcity, on the other hand, it could give you a feeling of disciplined enough that you feel like you're completely in control, which is a different kind of abundant feeling.
JANELLE THIESSEN [00:25:21]:
Hm. Well, the little experiment sounds like a good idea.
RON THIESSEN [00:25:24]:
Yeah, without committing yourself. Doing things that you just want to investigate what's actually going on here? Why do I feel like this? Why am I more committed to having the cinnamon bun than I am to fulfilling the picture that I have of me with less weight for whatever reason?
And see, that's the thing about when you set the goal, when you put the goal in writing, it paints a picture. If you don't have the picture, you're not going to do the goal. That's all there's to it. You can't see it happening. You're not going to do it. So, you need to have the picture.
RON THIESSEN [00:26:07]:
If you say you really want to do something about this weight and the way that you look and feel, then you've got to be able to see the picture. If you can't see the picture, and I don't mean the picture like somebody took a picture of you. I mean, you have to see the picture internally. If the way that you see yourself, there's just no impetus. There's nothing driving you to say, I really want to change this, then give yourself permission to just be.
And actually, what happens sometimes when you give yourself the permission to just be - it is what it is - sometimes that actually releases the resistance, and you end up going like, wow, I really want to do this!
JANELLE THIESSEN [00:26:53]:
Yeah.
RON THIESSEN [00:26:55]:
It happens. It does happen sometimes. Because resistance is like if you have your hands in front of you and you're putting pressure with your right hand on your left hand, and you're not letting it move in terms of position in front of your body, that's a bit of isometric exercise, but you're not getting anywhere.
RON THIESSEN [00:27:13]:
And that's what resistance is like. Because when you have resistance, you create the pushback. Right? So I don't want to do that. And right away, there's pushback. So the only way to eliminate that is to let go. So if you let go, now there's nothing to push up against.
So it seems like in talking to you, that much of what is the issue around this is about other people looking in and norms of society, all those kinds of things, which that's never going to be a reason for you to make any kind of change. No way.
JANELLE THIESSEN [00:27:49]:
Right.
RON THIESSEN [00:27:50]:
It's got to come from inside.
JANELLE THIESSEN [00:27:51]:
Mmhmm.
RON THIESSEN [00:27:52]:
And if it's not there, it's not there. And that's okay!
JANELLE THIESSEN [00:27:59]:
Yeah, it's hard to accept that something that is a societal standard, it's okay to choose something different.
RON THIESSEN [00:28:07]:
So in my experience, being in Africa, if you have an African wife and your wife is skinny or normal size, that means you're not a good provider. And if your wife, if she's built and she's substantial, that means you provided well for her.
JANELLE THIESSEN [00:28:29]:
So, my husband is an excellent provider.(laughing)
RON THIESSEN [00:28:34]:
(Laughing) But that's a cultural thing, you see. So you have women there that are larger, and they walk around so proud, they don't have an ounce of shame or embarrassment. Are you kidding? They feel like, I'm a well kept woman.
JANELLE THIESSEN [00:28:51]:
Right. Interesting how that can shift just based on the societal norm.
RON THIESSEN [00:28:58]:
It just shows you how much we adhere to society's definitions for us and how that impacts how we feel and how oftentimes it makes us feel guilty about things that in another society, in another place, at another time, we would not have felt guilty about.
JANELLE THIESSEN [00:29:13]:
Yeah. Yeah, that's a good point.
RON THIESSEN [00:29:15]:
I was just watching something on Netflix yesterday with Michael Moore. I mean, the guy is like...anyway, he makes good documentaries. And he's doing this thing, where is our next war? And so he's going to these different cultures to see what kinds of things can he snatch from them to bring back to America.
And so he's in France and he's looking at how they feed the kids in the school. You know, they have these wonderful meals that they plan out, and he's going, what? I can't believe this, you know. Here's a picture of what our kids get at school. What do you think of this? And these kids are going, aaah!
But anyway, he's in a classroom, and it's a sex ed classroom, and the teacher is talking about discovering your sexuality and how you should really consider that your first sexual experience, it's really important! It's important to think about how you're feeling and think about how your partner's feeling. So Michael Moore is like, we don't talk about this! Like what about abstinence? What about abstinence? And she looks at him with this sort of condescending smile and she says, we don't really believe in abstinence. (laughing)
RON THIESSEN [00:30:37]:
And I laugh because it's such a cultural difference.
JANELLE THIESSEN [00:30:41]:
(Laughing) Right.
RON THIESSEN [00:30:42]:
And you think about how much guilt kids in our society have about their sexuality. And if you were in that kind of environment, how there would be so many less opportunities for you to feel guilty about desires, about how you're growing, how you're changing.
I'm not advocating for one or the other, but I'm just saying that these things are imposed on us now. And you can see in the whole abortion debate that's going on in the US, there's such hard lines drawn between those two sides. And that's all about somebody's cultural idea of what's right and what's wrong. And it sets up the whole grid for guilt and for what is right and what is wrong, punishment, all of those things.
RON THIESSEN [00:31:28]:
It's amazing how we create these structures and they have nothing more to do with except the things that we've decided are right or wrong.
JANELLE THIESSEN [00:31:36]:
Yeah.
RON THIESSEN [00:31:36]:
So I think for you, you have to decide for you what's right. This is your body. Like you said, you don't have pressure from anybody that you really care about, that you should be different. So you've got to have an internal motivation for doing this. And if it's not there, it's not going to happen.
JANELLE THIESSEN [00:31:54]:
Yeah, I think this idea of what if you just decided that as you are is perfect. It's interesting, because I do look at other people my size. Sometimes, I see women with my identical body, or what I perceive to be my identical body. And I think, they don't look so bad! They kind of look cute, like they found a way to dress that looks cute. And I find myself thinking that, and then I think, so how come I don't get the same, you know, girl you don't look that bad! Or not even you don't look that bad, would be nice if I could just be like, you look cute!
JANELLE THIESSEN [00:32:38]:
You know? Embrace that. I mean, sure, it's extra. But yeah, I think but I would like to start there.
RON THIESSEN [00:32:49]:
But I think you don't get that because you don't think you deserve that inside. Just the way that we've been talking about this, you think there's a problem there. Like you should be different, you should look different. You should not be the weight that you are. So, that's what you project out. You're an outgoing person. So when you get in a situation and you're with friends and stuff, you're not thinking about yourself. But when you step back and think about yourself, visa vis you in that situation, you go like, I really should. I really should...
RON THIESSEN [00:33:26]:
And then your shoulds go on and on.Right?
JANELLE THIESSEN [00:33:28]:
Right.
RON THIESSEN [00:33:29]:
So that's what you're projecting out. And so that's what you get back. People are looking at you, probably and saying, she should lose a little weight, or she should... Exactly the things you tell yourself. Because that's what you're telegraphing. Right? But if you were sitting there and going like, I should nothing. There's no reason for me right now. My health is good.
RON THIESSEN [00:33:49]:
You're sitting in my place and doing a blood pressure thing, and your blood pressure is down in the basement. You know, there's no physical reason that you should be looking to make a change. So, why are you wanting to?
And there could be legitimate reasons that you want to. I'm not saying there aren't. There could be, but you don't know what they are, and that's not the reason for your motivation for doing something about it. So it's no wonder that you're not doing anything about it.
JANELLE THIESSEN [00:34:21]:
Right. Yeah, I think, honestly, a good first step is...it's interesting, because remember when I went to your class and I was telling them about this 365 day journey where I'm going to get to be a healthier version of myself and all the rules that I'd already started out with in the first 30 days? And they were like, why? Why? Why are you being so hard on yourself? Why are there so many rules? And wow, that sounds horrible! Again, this conversation helps me realize that yeah, I would give everybody else way more grace than I'm giving myself.
RON THIESSEN [00:34:59]:
Right, exactly.
JANELLE THIESSEN [00:35:02]:
But I think all of us have a hard time giving ourselves the grace that we give to others. I'm not sure if it's all of us. I know there are definitely some of us who can give grace.
RON THIESSEN [00:35:15]:
A lot of people are like that.
JANELLE THIESSEN [00:35:17]:
Yeah.
RON THIESSEN [00:35:18]:
But it reminds me of the other powerful statement that came out of that meeting with my class when that person asked you, why would you use scarcity to teach you how to get free of scarcity. Yeah, that's such a good point. So, that's kind of exactly what I'm saying, too. Why would you create this need to change when there's no need to change that you know of?
JANELLE THIESSEN [00:35:45]:
Right.
RON THIESSEN [00:35:46]:
So if you find the reason to change and it comes from your heart space, well, okay, that's a totally different story! And then we'd be having a different conversation, right? I would be talking to you, if I needed to, about how you can connect with that heart space on an ongoing and moment by moment basis so that you actually then can control and manage impulses or feelings that you need to indulge or whatever, create other ways of indulging, blah, blah, blah. Whatever it would happen to be. But until you have a really good reason that comes from your own heart for you to do this, there's no point in even trying to work this direction.
JANELLE THIESSEN [00:36:26]:
Mmhmm. Yeah, it makes sense. Cured! I just lost 100 pounds in this session alone. Look at me, I'm skinny now woohoo! (laughing)
RON THIESSEN [00:36:35]:
We'll sweat it out of you! (laughing)
But that helps you to know, to understand. You've got a few steps that you've got to complete before you can embark on this journey, if you decide that you even want to do that.
JANELLE THIESSEN [00:36:53]:
Yeah, well, I'm on the journey. I'm at the part of the journey where I am really really trying to find out okay what's the root of this so that I can move on and be done with this story. So whether that means my outward appearance changes or not, I just need to be done with this story because it's on repeat in my brain for 20 years.
RON THIESSEN [00:37:17]:
You got to settle. Yeah.
JANELLE THIESSEN [00:37:19]:
Yeah, exactly.
RON THIESSEN [00:37:21]:
And whatever the answer is, whatever you settle on, that's totally okay. Right?
JANELLE THIESSEN [00:37:28]:
Yeah.
RON THIESSEN [00:37:28]:
So if you settle on yeah, I'm going to drop this thing that's been bugging me for 20 years, and I don't need to deal with it. I have no urgency to deal with it, and so I'm not going to do anything with it, and I'm sure not going to feel guilty.
JANELLE THIESSEN [00:37:45]:
Yeah. I think I'll probably lean more towards the little experiments because I would like to sit with the triggers. I realize that triggers is an overused word these days, but I would like to sit with them and kind of feel the discomfort and assess why it's there kind of thing. So for sure I'd like to push myself a little bit, but at the same time change the internal dialogue if I can. I don't know if I can. Looking at a picture of myself and going, aw, she's cute! She's got a big booty! It's four-dimensional, but it's cute! (laughing)
JANELLE THIESSEN [00:38:25]:
As I listen to this conversation, I know progress has been made in the last eight months. Am I still the same size? Yeah. Maybe even a few pounds heavier. Do I feel crappy about myself when I look in the mirror? Sometimes, yes, I do. But this is just part of my journey, and I have no doubt that it's serving me somehow.
I'd love it if you joined me in the Change Evolutionist Community Chat on Facebook and let me know if this episode got you thinking in a new way about yourself or about others in your life. Are you being kind to yourself? I hope so. Because you are a beautiful and precious human being just like me, and we need you, just as you are.
JANELLE THIESSEN [00:39:20]:
What did you think of this episode? Head over to the private Change Evolutionist Community Chat to join the conversation. Find the link in the show notes.
We're excited to announce that you can find the Human Being Project on Wisdom, a social media app that promotes authentic connections and meaningful conversations with real people. This is great news for you because it gives you an opportunity to ask a question anonymously and get a voice reply from one of us. Just go to wisdom.app/humanbeingproject/ask, type your question, and click send!
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Ron Thiessen is a practicing psychologist and educator. To apply as a guest on the podcast please visit thechangeevolutionist.com/podcastguest.
